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tv   Anderson Cooper 360  CNN  October 20, 2010 9:00pm-11:00pm EST

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>> i'd do it again. >> larry: they don't call on you? >> they call and we talk but not about that. they just call. it's the academy. how you feeling? i have a ball when i do that. >> larry: thank you, jon. >> thank you. and it's been a pleasure and honor and congratulations on all this. >> larry: thank you. "earth" is the book. tomorrow night is the special on autism, half of it taped in new york and the other half is live from here with him hosting. tomorrow night, and don't forget the big rally october 30th. want to sit here for an interview, you can. go to cnn.com/larryking, enter our contest. being the king. the winner will come to the set and turn the tables on yours truly. >> i'm totally entering! >> larry: friday night, the cast of "modern family" will be here. now anderson cooper and "ac 360." larry, jon, thanks very much, and thanks for watching. they want your vote but not the
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accountability that comes with earning your trust. politicians dodging reporters, pun put in handcuffs. we've got unsettling news, uncovered more like it and a troubling pattern of would-be lawmakers acting like a law unto themselves. we're keeping them honest. and the naacp putts out a bliterring report about the tea party, allegations it puts out platforms to racists and bigots. why did they hire a group which has denounced the tea party to write this allegedly fair report about the tea party and how come so many allegations seem to be based on innuendo and guilt by association. and the promising washington intern vanishes, years later a suspect emerges and the trial is finally on. crime and punishment tonight. we begin tonight as we always do, keeping them honest, with the remarkable number of politicians this year who want your vote, they don't want to answer tough questions to get it. some of them are simply ducking reporters and we've seen that time and time again, not talking to anyone who might disagree
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with them. others, though, are going further, trying to intimidate reporters who try to get questions answered. you might have seen what happened in alaska, one reporter was handcuffed not by police but by private security guards. it happened at central middle school in anchorage at a town hall meeting joe miller was holding. miller's people say the reporter physically assaulted someone and made threatening moves toward the candidate. says he was there to question joe miller. he says he was surrounded by hostile people. whatever the case may be, the guys handcuffing him were not the police. as you'll see, they felt comfortable threatening at least one other reporter who was videotaping the aftermath. >> so this is what's going to happen. if you don't leave right now, i'm going to put you in handcuffs too. >> and who are you? what's your name? >> you're trespassing, sir.
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sir, you're tres pat ipassing, need to leave. >> tell me your name, sir. >> you're not even with the school. no. you're not with the school, you're not with the tv, we don't listen to you. >> what's the event? what's your name? what's your title with the event? >> this is private property, it's a private event. guess what? it's private and we're telling you to leave now. >> sir -- >> so let's remember those guys in suits with the ear pieces, they're not secret service, they're not police, they're just guys with little ear pieces doing what they want. so who are they? turns out they were members of mr. miller's private security detail employed by a company called drop zone. two of the guards are active duty soldiers and according to an army spokesman quoted in the anchorage daily news didn't have permission to be working for this company in alaska. but what's more interesting is what we learned about this guy, william fulton, the one who threatened the other reporter to be in handcuffs as well. he's the head of drop zone and
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is reportedly an associate of a right wing group, doesn't deny posting on this militia group on google, where he is praised, quote, i command bill at drop zone for serving as the supply sergeant for many units. i guess he's talking about militia units. he goes on, and he others hold the vision of a mighty force upon the plain able to send a clear and unmistakable message to tie rants, don't tread on me. you might say this is an isolated incident but it's not the only time people trying to document events at political functions lately have been met with force or intim dags. look at this in florida, congressional candidate alan west. a democratic tracker, one of the people from both parties that both parties send out to tape the opposition is met by a pack of bikers. that's right, bikers. the first voice you hear is the candidate's voice saying, i
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don't want him here. plea please escort him away. this is at a public park, though the west campaign says it is a private event. >> this is a place of honor, and the organization that you represent has no honor, so please leave. >> do you really want to do this? i'm not stalking, it's a public place. >> don't bump into me, son. >> hey. hey. this is a free place. >> yeah, and we're free to stand here. we're free to stand here. >> i was trying to walk that way. [ bleep ]. >> i will not touch you. >> you just did. >> i'll stand right here. >> you just did. >> the guy's name is wolf, i think. the florida democratic party has removed the tracker from the campaign trail out of concerns for his safety. the west campaign claims tracker was stalking them and accuses
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them of playing politics by releasing the tape now, the incident happened last month. doesn't take away from the fact the incident did happen. so that's two incidents, isolated examples, you might say. they're certainly extreme examples but never have we seen so many politicians choosing only friendly media outlets to talk to or dodging the press entirely. five politicians we've been reaching out to, democratic and republican, who are making news but just refuse to come on the program. rand paul, sanford bishop, christine o'donnell, jennifer granholm, some of them because they're avoiding questions about one scandal or another, or because they think not answering questions will get them elected. take a look. >> we're drawing a line in the sand. you can ask me about that, you can ask me about personal issues, i'm not going to answer. i'm not. >> we needed to have the press be our friend.
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we wanted them to ask the questions we want to answer so that they report the news the way we want it to be reported. >> we will make ourselves available, i know sharron's got a very tight schedule. >> ms. o'donnell can i ask you that one question you said you'd answer? >> i did answer. >> the campaign -- >> i answered it. >> reporter: you didn't answer it. >> let's talk about it now with alex castellanos and arianna huffington. does it seem to you more candidates than ever are avoiding talking to any kind of critical reporter? >> it does seem so, anderson, for a good reason. this is an unprecedented
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election year. when we have so many candidates who are not really ready for prime time, if they win it it will be because they're not the incumbent. if sharron angle wins in nevada it's not because of her positions but because she's not harry reid. so in those cases, it actually makes sense for them to avoid all the land mines. and any question can lead to an answer that becomes a land mine. so the more they are just not present, the more they're basically just simply not the incumbent, the more likely they are to win. >> alex, it's not just republicans or tea party candidates, there's democrats as well and long-term, you know, democratic candidates. i've been trying to get congressman sanford bishop from georgia on this program to answer questions about this congressional black caucus foundation scholarship money he was supposed to give to needy kids but instead gave it to
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others, does it make sense to don't talk to anyone who is going to question you aggressively? >> i don't know you'd advise anybody to not talk to someone who's going to question you, but the market has changed so much, anderson, it's fragmented. it used to be there were four broadcast networks now there's cable. there's so many other ways for people to get information, computers, on the internet, e-mail from their friends, we get our political information in a very decentralized way now. but what does that mean? that means that a consultant like me can tell a candidate, you know, this is not the path to go to talk to this reporter, it's a problem. you'll get a better opportunity if you go another way. >> but it's interesting, you have candidates, sarah palin telling o'donnell to only speak to fox news or sharron angle saying we want the press to report the news how we want it to be reported. does she realize what she's saying?
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does anyone care? >> sometimes they do care, sometimes they see advantage of avoiding problems but other times they miss opportunities. politics is the art of consensus building. you have to reach across the 50-yard line and get that 51%. so the price i think that some of these candidates pay is they narrow themselves just to a base. a base is not enough to win an election. you've got to reach across the middle. >> it's interesting, too, because hatred of the media is now kind of so widespread it's become kind of a point of pride by some candidates, you know, to say, look, the lame stream media or the mainstream media, they're not going to ask fair questions and therefore we're just not going to talk to them and that seems to kind of help them with their core supporters. >> well, the hatred and mistrust of the media is the mistrust of all establishment, and alex is right, especially in general election, the presidential elect, it's much harder to do
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this kind of narrow casting strategy. but in the midterm election when it's all about turnout and when turnout isn't going to be anywhere near as high as it was in '08, it may work for some. it's a terrible thing for democracy. there's no question about that. especially when you combine it with the propensity of certain candidates like paladino, like carl paladino or joe miller to use these methods to deal with the press. >> arianna raises the joe miller incident where private security guards, the head of whom seems to be part of an alaskan militia, though he denies this, literally putting handcuffs on somebody, does this make any sense whatsoever? has this crossed a line? >> i haven't put it on a survey, but i bet you that arresting a few reporters would probably get you some votes in a republican primary somewhere. >> i have no doubt about that, but is it a good thing? >> it's not a good thing. you know, one of the things that when you elect someone to office
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you want stability and maturity. especially in uncertain times. and when you see somebody driving off, you know, beyond the lines that are on the side of the road, you begin to question their leadership. how they comport themselves in a campaign is important. the reason we have campaigns is to test or prospective leaders. we want to see how they respond when questioned, how they respond in debates, how they respond to the give and take of the campaign and the press. if voters get the sense that you're denying them, you're not denying reporters, you're denying the audience reporters talk to. if voters get the sense they're being shut out, it will only be to the candidate's detriment. >> arianna huffington and alex castellanos, thanks. >> thank you. let us know what you think, join the live chat right now at ac360.com. days before the election, the naacp puts out a bombshell
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report, we'll talk to the head of the naacp, ben jealous. and nine years after she disappeared, her alleged killer finally goes on trial. we'll look at the case that rocked washington and cost one congressman his career. and my exclusive conversation with yoko ono about the horrible night john lennon was murdered and whether she can ever forgive his killer. [ male announcer ] how can rice production in india affect wheat output in the u.s., the shipping industry in norway, and the rubber industry in south america? at t. rowe price, we understand the connections of a complex global economy. it's just one reason os beat their10-year lipp. t. rowe price.invest . request a prospectus or summary prospectus with investment objectives, risks, fees, expenses, and other information to read and consider carefully before investing.
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>> critics say you're releasing this thing 13 days before an election. how can this not be about politics and trying to mobilize people to vote and effect their vote at the voting booth? >> we made this call in july. we said the report would be coming out then. the report's finished and we've released it. you know, this is a call. >> why release it now, 13 days before an election? >> we have released it now because we need to call this country to basic civility. this report shouldn't be controversial. we made the call before, they saed this is baseless and a week later they threw out mark williams. a few weeks after that, they kicked out another for suggesting gay people should be killed. you know, we keep on hearing the denying of facts, we keep presenting them to them. we're saying, stop denying it, here's the truth, do something about it. >> so you're saying this has nothing to do with politics, it's just a coincidence that it's 13 days until the election.
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you could have waited until after the election or released it months ago. >> we couldn't months ago because it wasn't done yet. we've released it now because it is. you've heard reports from texas members of the tea party were scaring voters and the early voting. we've got to blow the whistle and say, look, you can believe this, you can believe that. can you go this way, you can go that way. but there's one thing we cannot compromise and that's basic civility. >> let me ask you about this report. this was co-authored by leonard zeskin, and your group, the naacp hired them to do this. this is clearly a left wing group opposed to the tea party. if you wanted an unbiased report -- >> he's won the mcarthur genius award. >> are you saying he doesn't have a complete liberal agenda? >> he won that very pris tinlgs prize because he exposed groups
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like white aryan nation. i've been very clear, we're not calling the tea party racist, we're calling them to repudiate racism. >> if you're doing a study you want people to believe is fair, why hire an organization which clearly has a left wing agenda and does not like the tea party? >> again, you know, the reality here is he's -- >> i know, mcarthur award, it's a great thing, but he can hate the tea party and be a genius and hate the tea party, does that mean -- >> look. you can go through the footnotes. this is a 94-page report. go through it again and again and again. what you'll see as you go through this report and the footnotes, we didn't hire him, you've really got to check your facts. this report was not funded by us. i wrote the forward to it. >> well, his organization sent volunteers and personnel out to groups and they co-authored this reporter. so whether you hired them or not you are relying on their expertise and you believe their accuracy. >> and so does the mcarthur foundation. this is a guy who is one of the
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most distinguished people in this country. when it comes to tracking white -- you know, white extremist groups, the -- >> he gave a talk at the naacp convention in july and this is what he said about the tea party movement. he said and i quote, these are not populist of any stripe, these are ultranationalists, or super patriots who are defending their special pale-skinned privileges and power. does that sound like someone who's going to write an unbiased report? >> he's talking about the group that have worked their way into the tea party, people like the head of 1776 tea party who started out in the minute man project, who was called for violence in shooting undocumented people on the border. that's what we're talking about here. >> your report focuses on a lot of the smaller tea party groups. there are literally thousands of tea party groups and in the report you say and i want to make this clear you say the majority of the supporters are sincere and people of good faith and good will. but in the report it does seem to use a lot of innuendo and
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guilt by association. i just want to read one line, tea party organizations have given platforms to anti-semites, racists and bigots, further hardcore white nationalists have been attracted to these protests looking for potential recruits and hoping to push these protesters to more self-conscious and ideological white supremacy. because there are thousands of these tea party groups, is it fair to cherry pick a handful of extremists who may have gotten time on a mike or attack the tea party because some white supremacist glommed on to a rally to hand out flyers? if a communist group went to a liberal rally, would it be fair to say the liberals are therefore communist or attract communists? >> we face the same types of denials, the last time we issued the call. a week later they threw out mark williams, the head of the tea party express not for the first time he made racist comments but for the sixth, seventh, eighth time he made racist comments. then you have the 1776 tea party. one of the biggest factions,
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headed up by people who are part of the -- who are the executive director and the head of the communications of the minute m project. then you have the fact that five out of the six tea party factions are led by people who are birthers. you know, who literally our first black president and they stand here and question whether or not he is a valid citizen of this country. you know, these are very serious allegations, they go right to the top of some of these groups. we've seen one of their leaders fall after people say, oh, we don't know where it s mark was doing it before we made the call but you threw him out after we made the call. same thing with the guy who was the head of the big sky tea party association. they threw him out for calling for -- killing for gay people. you know, this is serious stuff. and it was just a couple of people here and there. we wouldn't be saying anything. but when you have the head of tea party expression and you have the head of the 1776 tea party and then you see things going down the line -- >> right, but a number of the mainstream tea party groups have
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repudiated these statements and repudiated these people as you have pointed out, throwing them out, you're focusing on much smaller groups that don't have the same kind of central authority. one of the things the report also takes issue with is the tea party movement's battle cry, take it back, take your country back. you hear lot of people saying i want to take my country back, and some say it's a form of racism in disguise. want to play for you that statement being made by some other folks. let's listen. >> today we stand in common purpose to take our country back. >> to take back our country. >> we are going to take our country back. >> it's going to be because of you that we take our country back. >> to make sure we take our country back. >> are you ready to take our country back? >> this is the year we take our country back. >> why is it when democrats say take our country back no one says that's extreme nationalism, but when tea party supporters say it, it's ominous racism in
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disguise? >> you've got to put it in context. when you see a confederate battle flag flying in south carolina, it's one thing. maybe somebody can argue it's heritage, but when you're in washington state and you see people flying confederate battle flags, it's a very different sign. this isn't about heritage. they're about as far away as you can get from the former confederacy. the reality is that the -- that these groups, you know, again, going all the way up to the top, they deny, they deny, they deny, and then the interesting thing with mark williams, it was the tea party federation who pushed him out. tea party express still hasn't completely disowned him. they make comments, he's still party of the family and so forth. and the reality is, the reason we issued this report, this report is to ensure somebody blows the whistle. i was there for months saying,
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looking stand up and just call them out for calling john lewis the "n" word, for calling barney frank a vicious slur. and finally we started to see some action. >> you do understand, though, why people would raise questions about this report, given the organization who is, you know, and the man who is co-author of it. okay, he may be a genius, i have no doubt about that, but clearly -- >> he won the prize because he's documented white supremacist activity better than anybody else in this country. >> he made statements about the tea party to your organization in july and he put out a fair -- >> he was talking about the groups who were insurgent into the tea party. the reality is that, you know, who gets better when the tea party does what they did to mark williams because we called on them, when they did what they did to raven doll, they get better. you end up at the end of the day with a better tea party. just like when we called on the
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democratic party in the 1960s to deal with the white supremacists in their ranks and they got better. >> i just don't think they're going to listen to this report because they're going to discount the organization behind it. we're out of time, actually way over time. but in this age where people don't come on television and take hard questions and stand up for reports they put out, i appreciate you coming on and doing that. i do appreciate you coming on. >> thanks, anderson. a programming note now, tomorrow night on cnn, don't miss a "black in america" special report, here's a prerue. >> reporter: doug jeffreys is a luxury car salesman. his wife, mary, is a high-end real estate broker. but they haven't paid their own mortgage in two years, and now they could lose it all. today, they're headed to a meeting with the housing counselor who is working to save their home. do you remember the day you moved in? >> october 12th, 2002.
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it was rainy, cold. >> reporter: oh, no. >> just the messiest day. >> reporter: oh, that's terrible. >> but it was sunshine in our hearts. >> reporter: they lived in a 3500 square foot four bedroom home on a corner lot complete with a three car garage for their bmws. >> so can they save their house from foreclosure? watch "almighty debt" tomorrow only on cnn. after one court opened the door to gays and lesbians openly serving in the military, another court closes that door. also later, an exclusive, the murder of john lennon as remembered by his widow yoko ono. >> and when he said that he passed away, i said, no! he didn't! he's alive. i was very, very upset about it. and i just refused to think that he died. we asked people all over america where the best potatoes come from.
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following a number of other stories tonight. tom foreman joins us with the bulletin. tom? >> reporter: don't ask, don't tell is back in effect at least for now. a federal appeals court temporarily suspended the ruling that stopped the military from enforcing the controversial policy which means the military can once again bar openly gay and lesbian troops from serving
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while the appeals court decides whether to overturn the lower court's decision. last year's shooting rampage at ft. hood could have been far worse, according to a witness at a military hearing who said the suspected gunman had 177 rounds of ammunition on him and a second weapon. major nidal hasan is accused of killing 13 people in that shooting spree. the hearing is to determine if he'll be court martialed. and steve later's apartment was broken into allegedly by his partner's brother. police say it happened while slater was in court on charges he deployed an emergency chute at jfk in august. >> it just gets weirder and weirder. tom, thanks. up next, her disappearance nine years ago captivated the nation's capital, now her murder trial is underway. we take you inside the case tonight. and part two of my exclusive interview with yoko ono about the night john lennon was gunned
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the 24-year-old intern vanished in washington. now jury selection is under way in her murder trial. the former congressman with whom chandra levy was romantically linked may be called as a witness. his attorney says his client has written a tell-all book but will hold off shopping it until after the trial. joe johns has more on the case. >> reporter: it was the spring of 2001 when washington and the country first heard the name chandra levy. an attractive and ambitious young woman who came to d.c. from california for an internship with the federal bureau of prisons. just days after that internship ended she vanished. chandra levy was living in this apartment building in the dupont circle neighborhood of washington, d.c. april of 2001 she was getting ready to go home. her internship had ended, she told her landlord chef was
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moving out, canceled her gym membership and suddenly disappeared. >> do you know anything about where chandra levy is? >> reporter: then it emerged she had been a close friend of gary condit, the reporter who co-authored a book about it. >> chandra levy told her aunt that she was having an affair with gary condit. she also told a friend. and when she disappeared and the police are looking for her, these people came forward. and gary condit didn't want to talk about it. he talked to the police privately, but he felt like his personal life was his personal life, he was up for re-election and didn't want to talk about it. >> reporter: critical of the police, chandra's wealthy parents hired a top prosecutor and two former d.c. homicide detectives to do their own investigation. everybody had a lot of questions for condit. >> i urge him if he does have any information to please be man
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enough to step forward and talk about it. >> reporter: months after chandra vanished, condit did go on abc. he made it clear he had nothing to do with her disappearance but would not be specific about their relationship. >> i met chandra last october. and we became very close. i met her in washington, d.c. >> reporter: very close meaning? >> we had a close relationship. i liked her very much. >> reporter: may i ask you, was it a sexual relationship? >> well, connie, i've been married for 34 years and i've not been a perfect man and i've made my share of mistakes, but out of respect for my family and out of a specific request from the levy family, i think it's best that i not get into those details about chandra levy. >> reporter: that was late august of 2001, just a few weeks later the attacks of 9/11 would push the chandra levy story off the front page. and for more than a year her
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body went undiscovered in a ravine here in the dense woods of rock creek park. the fact is police searched the woods several times but never found the body. after all, both chandra levy and gary condit both lived near rock creek park. chandra also searched the computer on the day she disappeared to locate this mansion in the park. clingle mansion, suggesting she might have tried to come here. so why didn't the police find the body nearby? >> the chief of police at the time said i want all the roads and the trail searched. $100 yard off all the roads and all the trails in rock creek park. when they executed the search that day they only went 100 yards off the roads and not the trails and they missed chandra's body by about half a football field. that would have changed everything. they would have had evidence, they would have had dna. >> reporter: instead, the badly decomposed body was found by a guy out walking in the woods. it was spring of 2002, more than a year after she disappeared. clearly she had been murdered. the question was how, and who
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did it. over the next several years, the investigation would slowly begin focusing on a young, illegal immigrant from el salvador, ingmar guandique. years later he allegedly admitted to fellow inmates he had killed chandra. >> he used to sit on that curb over there and watch the women joggers coming by down this path. and chandra levy, we believe, was walking down this path. on a beautiful, sunny, may 1st day in 2001. now, guandique has confessed to attacking with a knife two other women who walked down this path. and he has been serving a ten-year sentence for those assaults. >> reporter: guandique is now on trial for the murder of chandra levy, but legal experts say it will be a tough case for the prosecution. guandique denies he murdered
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leav levy and there is no physical evidence linking him to the crime. >> joe joins us now with midwin charles. midwin, as joe just said, this is actually going to be a tough case. no evidence, no dna, basically based on something he allegedly said to some other prisoners, and that kind of stuff is notoriously unreliable. >> very difficult case. no dna, no physical evidence, no confession, which is something that they tried really hard to get. and like you said, relying on a jailhouse snitch, the jury i think is going to have a really hard time determining their credibility. >> joe, how reliable is this person from the jail? do we know? >> well, i mean, the truth is a number of people who are in jail actually talk to the authorities over the years. but the problem here really is just credibility again and again. it can be shot down, shot holes in it, because the first thing you have to think about is somebody who's locked up, has,
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you know, a motive to try to get free. maybe they want early release or want some deal with the prosecutor. then there's the possibility of some altercation, maybe somebody got in a fight in the joint or whatever. a whole list of questions and that's why so many of these so-called jailhouse confessions or whatever get thrown out. >> and former congressman gary condit is expected to testify. are we likely to get the story of what happened between them? >> we might. he hasn't been subpoenaed yet, but it is expected that he might be called to testify. and who knows whether he'll delve into their romantic relationship. i for one don't know how relevant it is. rather i can see them asking questions such as when is the last time you saw her. >> couldn't the defense bring that up, alleging some sort of interaction between them and alleging some sort of alternate motive? >> one of the things they want to try to do is cast that light on him and away from their client. but i don't even see why they need to do that because there just isn't that much evidence here. if there was ever a better case
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for a defense attorney, it's this one. >> joe, what's happened to gary condit since this whole drama? >> he lived out on the west coast, moved to arizona, started a couple baskin-robbins stores and that sort of went down. not doing that anymore. still married, writing a book, and i hear from people in the inside that he's still pretty upset about how he was treated by the media. >> i can imagine. joe johns, appreciate it. and midwin, thanks so much. great to have you on the program. >> thank you. still ahead, part two of my exclusive interview with joe johns. what she thinks to the man who killed him. >> i know you've spoke about the man who killed john. do you worry about him getting parole? >> yes, i'm very concerned about that, because he's not a very stable person. ♪
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tonight, more of my exclusive interview with yoko ono. she doesn't give a lot of inrviews and we're grateful she agreed to talk candidly about john lennon and her relationship with him. in december it will be 30 years since lennon was murdered, shot dead outside the dakota apartment building here in new york where he and ono lived.
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mourners stayed throughout the night. she still lives at the dakota today and across the street, strawberry fields, the memoribo dedicated to lennon. that's where we went to talk. >> why did you decide to stay at the dakota? >> well, because it is our home. you don't just leave home. and also for sean, that was the only home he knows. you know? everything in the house reminded us of him. every room is where he touched, how can you leave that? >> reporter: i would find it hard, after my brother died, we moved from the building, because i -- i know my mom and i both found it just really hard. but for you it gives you strength. >> for me it gives me, it's a reminder of love that we had, too. you know? it gives me power.
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>> reporter: we talked a little bit about remembering how john lived as opposed to how he lost his life. do you think about the day he died? >> the day he died? not always, no, because i -- that's one thing that i don't really want to know about it. i mean, at the time, when i went to the hospital and i was waiting and then the doctor came and he was carrying something of john's, you know, like the rings, and that's when i thought, what is it? what is it? you know? just funny feeling about it. and when he said that he passed away, i said, no! he didn't! he's alive, you know? i was very, very upset about it, you know? and i refused to think he died. >> reporter: so it was really at the hospital is where you found out. >> yeah. >> reporter: i know you've spoken about the man who killed john. do you worry about him getting parole? i know every time it comes up -- >> yes, i'm very concerned about that, because you know he's not a very stable person.
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and you don't know that, you know, he might have been a very, very agreeable to around that time, too, so nobody noticed -- he's not the kind of person that wears this face, you know, so now that he's very charming or something, he was probably charming then, too, you know? so i don't really have a trust in what happens when he comes out. >> reporter: do you think about whether or not you want to forgive him? or is that too much to ask? >> i don't really know. i have to think about that. but you know, sean especially, and me too. but it's a very different situation. and we can't get out of it in a way. >> reporter: do you still come here to strawberry fields often? >> well, you know, when i take a walk, i walk a lot because it's very good for your health and everything, so when i teake a walk in the morning, of course i
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pass here, just checking. everything's all right, you know, that kind of thing. >> reporter: what's your feeling when you come here? >> well, i feel good that i made this tribute to john. this say tribute to john, and i realize that it was very important to do it. >> reporter: i think a lot of people don't realize strawberry fields was a real place john used to go to as a child. >> you see, the thing is, john was raised by his aunt, aunt mimi, and his mother was somewhere else, and his father was somewhere else, and so -- and strawberry fields was the orphanage right next to it. and whenever -- since he was a bad boy, she would say, you're going to be there. i'm going to send you there. >> reporter: to the orphanage. >> to the orphanage. so he was really frightened about it. >> reporter: we all remember the night he died, and people coming and spontaneously and thousands of people outside singing. did you hear those songs. >> of course. because i was -- my bedroom was
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right in front of it. i'm right next to it. and so all night i'm listening to him sing or sometimes they'd have the radio, john singing. and when john was singing, it just made me feel strange. because he's supposed to be in bed with me, and then, you know. it wasn't very -- easy. >> reporter: was it helpful? did it make it harder? >> it made it very hard. yeah. >> reporter: i hadn't realized that mark david chapman had actually spent the day outside your house and had actually seen you and seen you pass by and gotten an autograph from john. >> i know. oh. >> reporter: do you -- >> well, he got the autograph from john that very day. you know, we were going to go to the studio and john was a very, very astute person in that sense. you know? to go to the studio at the right time, you know? not an hour later, two hours
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later, and most musicians wouldn't care but he was very prompt about those things. so we had the car. i got in the car, and i saw that john was still signing autograph to chapman. i said, john, we have to go now. he said, yeah, yeah, okay. >> reporter: now on the 70th birthday, what do you want people to celebrate? what do you want people to -- >> his spirit, and the fact that there's so much that he gave to us. and to sort of thank him and i know that people loved him for what he has given them, you see? because he did give a lot. >> she is a really cool lady. here's a preview of part three of the interview. the other thing i was curious about, you said in an interview, you went to bed with
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him and suddenly woke up with three in-laws. >> why did i say that? >> reporter: you were talking about the beatles. >> looking back, i shouldn't have said that. >> reporter: did it feel like that at the time, though? >> yeah, of course. but not really. i tell you, not in the way that the world is thinking. actually, they were very polite people. i think polite just for john's sake, you know? they didn't want to be mean to me or something, so the meanness did not really express itself except once in a while. >> the rest of the exclusive interview with yoko ono airs friday on " 360." up next, we'll tell you where tiffany hartley is headed tonight. and a chimp goes loose. we have it all on video.
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all right, let's get caught up on some of the other stories we're following. tom foreman joins us. breaking news tonight, penthouse founder has died at a dallas area hospital after a long battle with cancer. he launched "penthouse" in 1965 in england and built it into one of the world's most popular magazines, for the articles of course. he was 79 years old. tiffany hartley says she won't give up the search for her husband's body, as she plans to move to colorado. the move was planned months before her husband was shot on a mexican lake that straddles the u.s./mexico border. and finding some improper foreclosures, but the secretary of housing and urban development said there are not any, quote, systemic issues. the probe won't be completed for
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a couple of months. penalties could range from fines to a ban on writing mortgage checks. and check this out, a chimp on the loose in kansas city, missouri. he attacked a police car and i guess is pushing around a trash can there. he's a 160-pound chimp, broke free from her owner who is a truck driver who let her ride shotgun, won't be doing that anymore because her new home will be the kansas city zoo. >> chimps are really dangerous. she shouldn't be riding shotgun in people's truck. >> a lot of tough chimp stories the past few years. >> i just had to wear a bunny suit in front of some apes. >> i don't want to hear about your problems. >> serious stuff, we have new details in the case of a candidate who had a reporter put in handcuffs and others who spend more time running from questions than answering them. and the new naacp report, is it fair? fair? be right back. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com
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tonight, they want your vote but not the accountability that comes with earning your trust. politicians dodging reporters, one even had a security team put
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a guy in handcuffs. we've got unsettling news, uncovered more like it and a troubling pattern of would-be lawmakers acting like a law unto themselves. we're keeping them honest. and the naacp puts out a blistering report about the tea party allegations it gives platforms to racists and bigots. tonight we have hard questions for the head of the naacp, why did they hire a group which has denounced the tea party to write this allegedly fair report about the tea party and how come so many allegations seem to be based on innuendo and guilt by association. also, the chandra levy story, a promising washington intern vanishes, a congressman's career ruined, and years later a suspect emerges and the trial is finally on. crime and punishment tonight. we begin tonight as we always do, keeping them honest, with the remarkable number of politicians this year who want your vote, they don't want to answer tough questions to get it. some of them are simply ducking reporters and we've seen that time and time again, not talking to anyone who might digree with them.
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others, though, are going further, trying to intimidate reporters who try to get questions answered. you might have seen what happened in alaska, one reporter was handcuffed not by police but by private security guards. it happened at central middle school in anchorage at a town hall meeting republican san torial candidate joe miller was holding. some say the reporter physically assaulted someone and made threatening moves toward the candidate. he says he was there to question joe miller. he says he was surrounded by hostile people. whatever the case may be, the guys handcuffing him were not the police. as you'll see, they felt comfortable threatening at least one other reporter who was videotaping the aftermath. take a look. >> so this is what's going to happen. if you don't leave right now, i'm going to put you in handcuffs too. >> and who are you? what's your name? >> you're trespassing, sir. sir, you're trespassing, you need to leave. >> tell me your name, sir.
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>> who are you? you're not even with the school. you're not with the school, we don't need to listen to you. >> what's the event? what's your name? what's your title with the event? >> this is private property, it's a private event. guess what? it's private and we're telling you to leave now. >> sir -- >> so let's remember those guys in suits with the earpieces, they're not secret service, they're not police, they're just guys with little earpieces doing what they want. so who are they? turns out they were members of mr. miller's private security detail employed by a company called drop zone. we've since learned two of the guards are active duty soldiers and according to an army spokesman quoted in the anchorage daily news didn't have permission from their current chain of command to be working for this company, drop zone, in alaska. but what's more interesting is what we learned about this guy, william fulton, the one who threatened the other reporter to be in handcuffs as well. he's the head of drop zone and is reportedly an associate of a
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alaska's citizen's militia. he denies belonging to the militia but doesn't deny posting on this militia group on google where he praised, quote, i command bill at drop zone for serving as the supply sergeant for many units. i guess he's talking about militia units. he goes on, and he others hold the vision of a mighty force upon the plain able to send a clear and unmistakable message to tie rants, don't tread on me. you might say this is an isolated incident but it's not the only time people trying to document events at political functions lately have been met with force or intimidation. look at this in florida, a campaign event for congressional candidate alan west. a democratic tracker, one of the people from both parties that both parties send out to tape the opposition is met by a pack of bikers. that's right, bikers. the first voice you hear is the candidate's voice saying, i don't want him here. please escort him away.
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so please leave. bikers. bear in mind this is happening at a public park, though the west campaign says it is a private event. >> i don't want him here. this is a place of honor and the organization that you represent has no honor, so please leave. >> do you really want to do this? i'm not stalking, it's a public place. >> don't bump into me, son. >> hey. hey. this is a free place. >> yeah? and we're free to stand here. we're free to stand here. >> i was trying to walk that way. [ bleep ]. >> i will not touch you. >> you just did. >> i'll stand right here. >> you just did. >> the guy's name is wolf, i think. the florida democratic party has removed the tracker from the campaign trail out of concerns for his safety. the west campaign claims tracker was stalking them and accuses florida democrats by playing
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politics by releasing the tape now. the incident happened last month. they very well may be playing politics by releasing the tape but it doesn't take away from the fact that the incident did happen. so that's two incidents, isolated examples, you might say. they're certainly extreme examples but never have we seen so many politicians choosing only friendly media outlets to talk to or dodging the press entirely. five politicians we've been reaching out to, democratic and republican, who are making news but just refuse to come on the program. rand paul, sanford bishop, christine o'donnell, sharron angle, jennifer granholm. some because they're avoiding questions about one scandal or another, or because they think not answering questions will get them elected. take a look. >> we're drawing a line in the sand. you can ask me about background, you can ask me about personal issues, i'm not going to answer. i'm not. >> we needed to have the press be our friend. we wanted them to ask the questions we want to answer so
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that they report the news the way we want it to be reported. >> we will make ourselves available, i know sharron's got a very tight schedule. >> ms. o'donnell can i ask you that one question you said you'd answer? >> i did answer. >> reporter: no, about the rentals last year. >> sorry, not happening. >> reporter: that was the one question i had. >> i answered it. >> reporter: no, you didn't answer it. >> let's talk about it now with republican strategist alex castellanos and arianna huffington, founder of the huffington post and author of "third world america." does it seem to you that more candidates than ever are avoiding talking to any kind of critical reporter? >> it does seem so, anderson, for a good reason. this is an unprecedented election year. when we have so many candidates
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who are the party nominees, not really ready for prime time, and if they win it it will be because they are not the incumbent. if sharron angle wins in nevada it's not because of her positions but because she's not harry reid. so in those cases, it actually makes sense for them tavoid all the land mines. and any question can lead to an answer that becomes a land mine. so the more they are just not present, the more they're basically just simply not the incumbent, the more likely they are to win. >> alex, it's not just republicans or tea party candidates, there's democrats as well and long-term, you know, democratic candidates. i've been trying to get congressman sanford bishop from georgia on this program to answer questions about this congressional black caucus foundation scholarship money he was supposed to give to needy kids but instead gave it to friends and relatives. he won't come on. he's just flat out dodging us, even though we call literally every single day.
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does it make sense? do you advise candidates, look, don't talk to anyone who's going to question you aggressively? >> i don't know you'd advise someone to not talk to somebody who's going to question you, but the market has changed so much, anderson, it's fragmented. it used to be there were four broadcast networks now there's cable. there's so many other ways for people to get information, computers, on the internet, e-mail from their friends, we get our political information in a very decentralized way now. so what does that mean? that means that a consultant like me can tell a candidate, you know, this is not the path to go to talk to this reporter, it's a problem. you'll get a better opportunity if you go another way. >> but it's interesting, you have candidates, sarah palin telling o'donnell to only speak to fox news or sharron angle saying we want the press to report the news how we want it to be reported. does she realize what she's saying? does anyone care? >> sometimes they do care, sometimes they see advantage of avoiding problems but other
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times they miss opportunities. politics is the art of consensus building. you have to reach a lot of people. you have to reach across the 50-yard line and get that 51%. so the price i think that some of these candidates pay is they narrow themselves just to a base. a base is not enough to win an election. you've got to reach across the middle. >> it's interesting, too, because hatred of the media is now kind of so widespread it's become kind of a point of pride by some candidates, you know, to say, look, the lame stream media or the mainstream media, they're not going to ask fair questions and therefore we're just not going to talk to them and that seems to kind of help them with their core supporters. >> well, the hatred and mistrust of the media is really the mistrufts of all establishments which is the motif of this election. and alex is right, especially in a general election, the presidential election, it's much harder to do this kind of fair owe casting strategy.
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but in the midterm election when it's all about turnout and when turnout isn't going to be anywhere near as high as it was in '08, it may work for some. it's a terrible thing for democracy. there's no question about that. especially when you combine it with the propensity of certain candidates like paladino, like carl paladino or joe miller to use these methods to deal with the press. >> arianna raises the joe miller incident where private security guards, the head of whom seems to be part of some sort of alaskan militia, though he denies this, literally putting handcuffs on somebody, does this make any sense whatsoever? has this crossed a line? >> i haven't put it on a survey, but i bet you that arresting a few reporters would probably get you some votes in a republican primary somewhere. >> i have no doubt about that, but is it a good thing? >> it's not a good thing. you know, one of the things that when you elect someone to office you want stability and maturity. especially in uncertain times.
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and when you see somebody driving off, you know, beyond the lines that are on the side of the road, you begin to question their leadership. how they comport themselves in a campaign is important. the reason we have campaigns is to test or prospective leaders. we want to see how they respond when questioned, how they respond in debates, how they respond to the give and take of the campaign and the press. if voters get the sense that you're denying them, you're not denying reporters, you're denying the audience reporters talk to. if voters get the sense they're being shut out of the process, it will only be to the candidate's detriment. >> arianna huffington and alex castellanos, thanks. >> thank you. let us know what you think, join the live chat right now at ac360.com. up next, days before the election, the naacp putts out a bombshell report accusing the tea party of giving platforms to racists and anti-semites. we'll talk to the head of the
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naacp, ben jealous, in a moment. and the latest on the chandra levy case, nine years after she disappeared, her alleged killer finally goes on trial. we'll look at the case that rocked washington and cost one congressman his career. and my exclusive conversation with yoko ono about the horrible night john lennon was murdered and whether she can ever forgive his killer. [ male announcer ] the next big thing from lexus is not a car. it's the idea that a car that will never have an accident may be possible. in pursuit of this goal, lexus developed the world's most advanced driving simulator, where a real driver in a real car can react to real situations without real consequences. the breakthroughs we innovate here
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of the tea party who focus both on the content, the claims and the timing of its release. joining us now to talk about the report is naacp president, ben jealous. thanks very much for being with us. >> sure. thank you, anderson. >> critics say you're releasing this thing 13 days before an election. how can this not be about politics and trying to mobilize people to vote and effect their vote at the voting booth? >> we made this call in july. we said the report would be coming out then. the report's finished and we've released it. you know, this is a call. >> why release it now, 13 days before an election? >> we have released it now because we need to call this country to basic civility. this report shouldn't be controversial. we made the call before, they said this is baseless and a week later they threw out mark williams. a few weeks after that, they kicked out another for suggesting gay people should be killed. we keep on hearing them denying the facts. we keep presenting them to them.
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they've made a few good steps. we're saying, stop denying it, here's the truth, do something about it. >> so you're saying this has nothing to do with politics, it's just a coincidence that it's 13 days until the election. you could have waited until after the election or released it months ago. >> we couldn't have months ago because it wasn't done yet. we've released it now because it is. you've heard reports from texas members of the tea party were scaring voters and the early voting. we've got to blow the whistle and say, look, you can believe this, you can believe that. can you go this way, you can go that way. but there's one thing we cannot compromise and that's basic civility. >> let me ask you about this report. this was co-authored by leonard zeskin, and your group, the naacp hired them to do this. this is clearly a left wing group opposed to the tea party. if you wanted an unbiased report about the tea party -- >> he's won the mcarthur genius award winner. >> are you saying he doesn't
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have a complete liberal agenda? that's anti-tea party? >> he won that very prestigious prize because he exposed groups like white aryan nation. all of us are very clear. i've been very clear that we're not calling the tea party racist, we're calling them to repudiate racism >> if you're doing a study you want people to believe is fair, why hire an organization which clearly has a left wing agenda and does not like the tea party? >> again, you know, the reality here is he's -- >> i know, mcarthur award, it's a great thing, but he can hate the tea party and be a genius and hate the tea party, does that mean he should do a report? >> look. you can go through the footnotes. this is a 94-page report. go through it again and again and again. what you'll see as you go through this report and the footnotes, we didn't hire him, you've really got to check your facts. this report was not funded by us. i wrote the forward to it. >> well, his organization sent volunteers and personnel out to groupsnd they co-authored this
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reporter. so whether you hired them or not you are relying on their expertise and you believe their accuracy. >> and so does the mcarthur foundation. this is a guy who is one of the most distinguished people in this country. when it comes to tracking white -- you know, white extremist groups, the -- >> he gave a talk at the naacp convention in july and this is what he said about the tea party movement. he said and i quote, these are not populist of any stripe, these are ultranationalists, or super patriots who are defending their special pale-skinned privileges and power. does that sound like someone who's going to write an unbiased report? >> he's talking about the group that have worked their way into the tea party, people like the head of 1776 tea party who started out in the minute man project, who was called for violence in shooting undocumented people on the border. that's what we're talking about here. >> your report focuses on a lot of the smaller tea party groups.
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there are literally thousands of tea party groups and in the report you say and i want to make this clear you say the majority of the supporters are sincere and people of good faith and good will. but in the report it does seem to use a lot of innuendo and guilt by association. i just want to read one line, tea party organizations have given platforms to anti-semites, racists and bigots, further hardcore white nationalists have been attracted to these protests looking for potential recruits and hoping to push these protesters to more self-conscious and ideological white supremacy. because there are thousands of these tea party groups, is it fair to cherry pick a handful of extremists who may have gotten time on a mike or attack the tea party because some white supremacist glommed on to a rally to hand out flyers? if a communist group went to a liberal rally, would it be fair to say the liberals are therefore communist or attract communists? >> we face the same types of denials, the last time we issued the call. a week later they threw out mark williams, the head of the tea
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party express not for the first time he made racist comments but for the sixth, seventh, eighth time he made racist comments. then you have the 1776 tea party. one of the biggest factions, headed up by people who are part of the -- who are the executive director and the head of the communications of the minute man project. then you have the fact that five out of the six tea party factions are led by people who are birthers. you know, who literally our first black president and they stand here and question whether or not he is a valid citizen of this country. you know, these are very serious allegations, they go right to the top of some of these groups. we've seen one of their leaders fall after people say, oh, we don't know where it is. mark was doing it before we made the call but you threw him out after we made the call. same thing with the guy who was the head of the big sky tea party association. they threw him out for calling for -- killing for gay people. you know, this is serious stuff. and it was just a couple of
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people here and there, we wouldn't be saying anything. but when you have the head of tea party express and you have have the head of the 1776 tea party and then you see things going down the line -- >> right, but a number of the mainstream tea party groups have repudiated these statements and repudiated these people as you have pointed out, throwing them out, you're focusing on much smaller groups that don't have the same kind of central authority. one of the things the report also takes issue with is the tea party movement's battle cry, take it back, take your country back. you hear lot of people saying i want to take my country back, and the report says it's a form of racism in disguise. want to play for you that statement being made by some other folks. let's listen. >> today we stand in common purpose to take our country back. >> to take back our country. >> we are going to take our country back. >> it's going to be because of you that we take our country back. >> to make sure we take our country back. >> are you ready to take our country back?
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>> this is the year we take our country back. >> why is it when democrats say take our country back no one says that's extreme nationalism, but when tea party supporters say it, it's ominous racism in disguise? >> you've got to put it in context. when you see a confederate battle flag flying in south carolina, it's one thing. maybe somebody can argue it's heritage, but when you're in washington state and you see people flying confederate battle flags, it's a very different sign. this isn't about heritage. they're about as far away as you can get from the former confederacy. the reality is that the -- that these groups, you know, again, going all the way up to the top, they deny, they deny, they deny, and then the interesting thing with mark williams, it was the tea party federation who pushed him out. tea party express still hasn't completely disowned him. they make comments, he's still very much connected to our group, he's still part of the
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family, and so forth. and the reality is, the reason we issued this report, this report is to ensure somebody blows the whistle. i was there for months saying, look, stand up and just call them out for calling john lewis the "n" word, for calling barney frank a vicious slur. and finally we blew the whistle and started to see some action. >> you do understand, though, why people would raise questions about this report, given the organization who is, you know, and the man who is co-author of it. i understand -- >> he's an award winner. >> i have no doubt about it, he may be a genius, but clearly -- >> he won the prize because he's documented white supremacist activity better than anybody else in this country. >> he made statements about the tea party to your organization in july to your organization and he put out a fair -- >> he was talking about the groups who were insurgent into the tea party. the reality is that, you know, who gets better when the tea party does what they did to mark
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williams because we called on them, when they did what they did to ravenstahl, they get better. you end up at the end of the day with a better tea party. just like when we called on the democratic party in the 1960s to deal with the white supremacists in their ranks and they got better. >> i just don't think they're going to listen to this report because they're going to discount the organization behind it. we're out of time, actually way over time. but in this age where people don't come on television and take hard questions and stand up for reports they put out, i appreciate you coming on and doing that. we just showed a whole lot of politicians who don't, so i do appreciate you coming on. >> thanks, anderson. a day after one court opened the door to gays and lesbians openly serving in the military, another closes it. also later, an exclusive, the murder of john lennon as remembered by yoko ono. >> when he said he pass ad way, i said, no! he didn't. he's alive. i was very, very upset about it, you know?
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following a number of other stories tonight. tom foreman joins us with the "360" bulletin. >> reporter: don't ask, don't tell is back in effect at least for now. a federal appeals court temporarily suspended the ruling that stopped the military from enforcing the controversial policy which means the military can once again bar openly gay and lesbian troops from serving while the appeals court decides whether to overturn the lower court's decision. last year's shooting rampage
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at ft. hood could have been far worse, according to a witness at a military hearing who said the suspected gunman had 177 rounds of ammunition on him and a second weapon. major nidal hasan is accused of killing 13 people in that shooting spree. the hearing is to determine if he'll be court martialed. and former jetblue flight attendant steve slater's apartment was broken into allegedly by his partner's brother. police say it happened while slater was in court on charges he deployed an emergency chute at jfk in august. >> it just gets weirder and weirder. tom, thanks. up next, her disappearance nine years ago captivated the nation's capital, now her murder trial is underway. we take you inside the case tonight. and part two of my exclusive interview with yoko ono about the night john lennon was gunned down, and whether his killer deserves any kind of forgiveness.
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tonight's crime and punishment, the chandra levy case, it's been nine years since the 24-year-old intern vanished in washington. now jury selection is under way in her murder trial. the former congressman with whom chandra levy was romantically linked, california democrat gary condit may be called as a witness. kontity's attorney says his client has written a tell-all book but will hold off shopping it until after the trial. joe johns has more on the case. >> reporter: it was the spring of 2001 when washington and the country first heard the name chandra levy.
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an attractive and ambitious young woman who came to d.c. from california for an internship with the federal bureau of prisons. just days after that internship ended she vanished. chandra levy was living in this apartment building in the dupont circle neighborhood of washington, d.c. april of 2001 she was getting ready to go home. her internship had ended, she told her landlord she was moving out, canceled her gym membership, and then suddenly disappeared. >> do you know anything about where chandra levy is? >> reporter: then it emerged she had been a close friend of gary condit. >> chandra levy told her aunt that she was having an affair with gary condit. she also told a friend. and when she disappeared and the police were looking for her, these people came forward. and gary condit didn't want to talk about it.
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he talked to the police privately, but he felt like his personal life was his personal life, he was up for re-election and didn't want to talk about it. >> reporter: critical of the police, chandra's wealthy parents hired a top prosecutor and two former d.c. homicide detectives to do their own investigation. everybody had a lot of questions for condit. >> i urge him if he does have any information to please be man enough to step forward and talk about it. >> reporter: months after chandra vanished, condit did go on abc. he made it clear he had nothing to do with her disappearance but would not be specific about their relationship. >> i met chandra last october. and we became very close. i met her in washington, d.c. >> reporter: "very close," meaning? >> we had a close relationship. i liked her very much. >> reporter: may i ask you, was it a sexual relationship? >> well, connie, i've been married for 34 years and i've not been a perfect man and i've
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made my share of mistakes, but out of respect for my family and out of a specific request from the levy family, i think it's best that i not get into those details about chandra levy. >> reporter: that was late august of 2001, just a few weeks later the attacks of 9/11 would push the chandra levy story off the front page. and for more than a year her body went undiscovered in a ravine here in the dense woods of rock creek park. the fact is police searched the woods several times but never found the body. after all, both chandra levy and gary condit both lived near rock creek park. chandra also searched the computer on the day she disappeared to locate this mansion in the park. klingle mansion, suggesting she might have tried to come here. so why didn't the police find the body nearby? >> the chief of police at the time said i want all the roads and the trail searched. 100 yards off all the roads and
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all the trails in rock creek park. when they executed the search that day they only went 100 yards off the roads and not the trails and they missed chandra's body by about half a football field. that would have changed everything. they would have had evidence, they would have had dna. >> rorter: instead, the badly decomposed body was found by a guy out walking in the woods. it was spring of 2002, more than a year after she disappeared. clearly she had been murdered. the question was how, and who did it. over the next several years, the investigation would slowly begin focusing on a young, illegal immigrant from el salvador, ingmar guandique. whotd years later he allegedly admitted to fellow inmates he had killed chandra. >> he used to sit on that curb over there and watch the women joggers coming by down this path. and chandra levy, we believe, was walking down this path. on a beautiful, sunny, may 1st
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day in 2001. now, guandique has confessed to attacking with a knife two other women who walked down this path. and he has been serving a ten-year sentence for those assaults. >> reporter: guandique is now on trial for the murder of chandra levy, but legal experts say it will be a tough case for the prosecution. guandique denies he murdered levy and there is no physical evidence linking him to the crime. >> joe joins us now with midwin charles. midwin, as joe just said, this is actually going to be a tough case. no evidence, no dna, basically based on something he allegedly said to some other prisoners, and that kind of stuff is notoriously unreliable. >> very difficult case. no dna, no physical evidence, no confession, which is something that they tried really hard to get. and like you said, relying on a jailhouse snitch, the jury i think is going to have a really hard time determining their
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credibility. >> joe, how reliable is this person from the jail? do we know? >> well, i mean, the truth is a number of people who are in jail actually talk to the authorities over the years. but the problem here really is just credibility again and again. it can be shot down, shot holes in it, because the first thing you have to think about is somebody who's locked up, has, you know, a motive to try to get free. maybe they want early release or want some deal with the prosecutor. then there's the possibility of some altercation, maybe somebody got in a fight in the joint or whatever. a whole list of questions and that's why so many of these so-called jailhouse confessions or whatever get thrown out. >> and former congressman gary condit is expected to testify. are we likely to get the story of what happened between them? >> we might. he hasn't been subpoenaed yet, but it is expected that he might be called to testify. and who knows whether he'll delve into their romantic relationship. i for one don't know how relevant it is. rather i can see them asking
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questions such as when is the last time you saw her. >> couldn't the defense bring that up as a possible -- alleging some sort of interaction between them and alleging some sort of alternate motive? >> one of the things they want to try to do is cast that light on him and away from their client. but i don't even see why they need to do that because there just isn't that much evidence here. if there was ever a better case for a defense attorney, it's this one. >> joe, what's happened to gary condit since this whole drama? >> he lived out on the west coast, moved to arizona, started a couple baskin-robbins stores and that sort of went down. not doing that anymore. still married, writing a book, and i hear from people in the inside that he's still pretty upset about how he was treated by the media. i can imagine. joe johns, appreciate it. and midwin, thanks so much. great to have you on the program. >> thank you. still ahead, part two of my exclusive interview with yoko ono. you'll hear her describe what happened the night of the murder
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and what she thinks should happen to the man who killed him. >> i know you've spoke about the man who killed john. do you worry about him getting parole? >> yes, i'm very concerned about that, because he's not a very stable person. [ j. weissman ] it was 1975. my professor at berkeley asked me if i wanted to change the world. i said "sure." "well, let's grow some algae." and that's what started it. exxonmobil and synthetic genomics have built a new facility to identify the most productive strains of algae. algae are amazing little critters. they secrete oil, which we could turn into biofuels. they also absorb co2.
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tonight, more of my exclusive interview with yoko ono. she doesn't give a lot of interviews and we're grateful she agreed to talk candidly about john lennon and her life with him. they met more than 40 years ago. it has been that lock. in december it will be 30 years since lennon was murdered, shot dead outside the dakota apartment building here in new york where he and ono lived. as news of his death broke, a crowd grew outside the dakota. she still lives at the dakota today and across the street, strawberry fields, the memorial dedicated to lennon five years after his murder on what would have been his 45th birthday. both locations are part of ono's core so that's where we went to talk. >> why did you decide to stay at the dakota? >> well, because it is our home. you don't just leave home. and also for sean, that was the only home he knows. time with his father. you know? everything in the house reminded us of him.
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every room is where he touched, how can you leave that? >> reporter: i would find it hard, after my brother died, we moved from the building, because i -- i know my mom and i both found it just really hard. but for you it gives you strength. >> for me it gives me, it's a reminder of love that we had, too. you know? it gives me power. >> reporter: we talked a little bit about remembering how john lived as opposed to how he lost his life. do you think about the day he died? >> the day he died? not always, no, because i -- that's one thing that i don't really want to know about it. i mean, at the time, when i went to the hospital and i was waiting and then the doctor came and he was carrying something of john's, you know, like the rings, and that's when i thought, what is it? what is it? you know? just funny feeling about it. and when he said that he passed away, i said, no! he didn't! he's alive, you know? i was very, very upset about it,
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you know? and i refused to think he died. >> reporter: so it was really at the hospital is where you found out. >> yeah. >> reporter: i know you've spoken about the man who killed john. do you worry about him getting parole? i know every time it comes up -- >> yes, i'm very concerned about that, because you know he's not a very stable person. and you don't know that, you know, he might have been a very, very agreeable to around that time, too, so nobody noticed -- he's not the kind of person that wears this face, you know, so now that he's very charming or something, he was probably charming then, too, you know? so i don't really have a trust in what happens when he comes out. >> reporter: some people forgive the people who have done great harm to them s that something -- do you think about whether or not you want to forgive him? or is that too much to ask? >> i don't really know. i have to think about that.
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but you know, sean especially, and me too. but it's a very different situation. and we can't get out of it in a way. >> reporter: do you still come here to strawberry fields often? >> well, you know, when i take a walk, i walk a lot because it's very good for your health and everything, so when i take a walk in the morning, of course i pass here, just checking. you know? everything's all right, you know, that kind of thing. >> reporter: what's your feeling when you come here? >> well, i feel good that i made this tribute to john. this is a tribute to john, and i realize that it was very important to do it. >> reporter: i think a lot of people don't realize strawberry fields was a real place john used to go to as a child. >> you see, the thing is, john was raised by his aunt, aunt mimi, and his mother was somewhere else, and his father was somewhere else, and so -- and strawberry fields was the orphanage right next to it.
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and whenever, you know, if he was a bad boy, she would say, you're going to be there. i'm going to send you there. >> reporter: to the orphanage. >> to the orphanage. so he was really frightened about it. >> reporter: we all remember the night he died, and people coming and spontaneously and thousands of people outside singing. did you hear those songs? >> of course. because i was -- my bedroom was right in front of it. i'm right next to it. and so all night i'm listening to them singing or sometimes they'd say the radio, john singing. and when john was singing, it just made me feel strange. because he's supposed to be in bed with me, and then, you know. it wasn't very -- easy. >> reporter: was it helpful? did it make it harder? >> it made it very hard. yeah. >> reporter: i hadn't realized that mark david chapman had actually spent the day outside your house and had actually seen you and seen you pass by and gotten an autograph from john.
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>> i know. oh. >> reporter: do you -- >> well, he got the autograph from john that very day. you know, we were going to go to the studio and john was a very, very astute person in that sense. you know? to go to the studio at the right time, you know? not an hour later, two hours later, and most musicians wouldn't care but he was very prompt about those things. so we had the car. i got in the car, and i saw that john was still signing autograph to chapman. i said, john, we have to go now. he said, yeah, yeah, okay. >> reporter: now on the 70th birthday, what do you want people to celebrate? what do you want people to -- >> his spirit, and the fact that there's so much that he gave to us. and to sort of thank him and i know that people love him for what he has given them, you see? because he did give a lot.
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we'll be right back. welcome to our mcdonald's.
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want to give you a preview of an extraordinary document tri
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you'll see tomorrow on cnn, it's called "black in america" about a church fighting a financial crisis from the pulpit, leading the fight, a pastor who believes debt is the new slavery. here's soledad o'brien. >> i'm not nervous. i'm just not nervous. are you fonervous? >> i'm going with positive thoughts and bringing a positive spirit. positive vibe. >> reporter: doug jeffries is a luxury car salesman. his wife, mary, is a high-end real estate broker. but they haven't paid their own mortgage in two years. and now they could lose it all. today, they're headed to a meeting with the housing counselor who is working to save their home. do you remember the day you moved in? >> october 12th, 2002. it was rainy. >> reporter: oh, no. >> cold. >> reporter: oh, no. >> the messiest day.
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>> reporter: oh, that's terrible. >> but it was sunshine in our hearts. >> reporter: they lived in a 35-00 square foot, four-bedroom home on a corner lot, complete with a three-car garage for their bmws. >> this is the living room. i'm a girl from newark, new jersey. we grew up in a one bedroom apartment and it was four girls and one boy. so i would always say, oh, i can't wait until i get grown i'm going to buy the biggest house, i'm going to do this. the pool would probably have been back there. the deck, the pool, and a tennis court. you don't know what the next person is doing but i think there's some psychology in the african-american community around spending that's connected with having felt less than and wanting to feel as good as. >> let's give god some praise. >> reporter: the jeffries are drowning in the kind of debt their pastor, buster sores, preaches against just about every sunday. >> live within your means.
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people that don't manage their money wisely are not managing our lives wisely. >> it's interesting because dr. malveaux talks about psychology in the african-american do you think that applies to the jeffries? >> i think it applies to everybody. when i asked the pastor is this an african-american problem? he said consumerism is an american problem but the impact is so great in the african-american community where the wealth is so much less. i talked to my mom who as a child she'd work in stores, clothes in these stores you weren't allowed to touch because you were black. you were allowed to sell them, you couldn't wear them. when you're a market segment people are selling to you, psychologically that is a big leap. and i think there is a psychology around people who don't have much and suddenly can have whatever they want. i think that's true. >> throughout the documentary we see the pastor stepping in to try to literally kind of bail out or help people in the congregation. how common is that? >> very common. the church i

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